Bolton Wanderers have most to fear. Singer & Friedlander, the operation belonging to the collapsed Icelandic bank Kaupthing, is in administration. Bolton would now appear to be debtors to a huge list of creditors who are clamouring for their funds.

Quote:

Two of England's Champions League clubs will be sweating over the implications of the "nationalisation" of high street banks yesterday, but others have even more to fear over their relationships with lenders. Arsenal and Liverpool will be wondering who their personal bank manager will be after Royal Bank of Scotland was due to sell 60% of its own equity to the government. Between them the two clubs owe RBS-led consortiums more than £500m. Stoke City's relationship is with HBOS, the other stricken bank to be propped up with billions of pounds in taxpayers' cash. But although the loans to football clubs on the banks' balance sheets might be considered "toxic" assets that might never mature, a spokesman for the Treasury offered assurances. "It is a commercial matter for the banks and building societies about their loans to football clubs," he said. Liverpool's other major backer is Wachovia, which was sold to Wells Fargo 10 days ago. Fulham have had longer to assess their relationship with Fortis Bank, which was nationalised by the Dutch, Belgian and Luxembourg governments last month. Bolton Wanderers have most to fear. Singer & Friedlander, the operation belonging to the collapsed Icelandic bank Kaupthing, is in administration. Bolton would now appear to be debtors to a huge list of creditors who are clamouring for their funds. Manchester United's parent group is linked with JP Morgan while Aston Villa and Tottenham have relationships with HSBC, the one British bank unscathed by the crisis. The nine others show why it is called the Barclays Premier League. Bidding for top jobs Interviews will begin within days on the two major executive positions for the World Cup 2018 bid company. The composition of the board was announced on Sunday and steps will now be taken to appoint those who will run the bid company on a day-to-day basis: the chief executive and chief operating officer. David Triesman, the Football Association's chairman, will lead the interview panel for the chief executive and it is expected that Manchester United's David Gill, the only "football man" on the nine-person bid-company board, will play a significant role in that appointment. Five of those on the board are past or serving politicians but the FA will also soon announce a number of "ambassadors" - with David Beckham expected to be the most prominent appointment - and "vice-presidents" to give the bid campaign the football flavour it currently lacks. Expect a senior figure such as the Premier League chairman, Sir Dave Richards, to fill one of those roles. Banking blues Everton extended their overdraft facility with Barclays Bank by 20% to £30m last month, shortly before engaging the football dealmaker Keith Harris to find them a new owner. Although Everton do not expect borrowings against the facility to exceed £21m at the season's end - comfortably within the new limits - the move shows how reliant they are on the support of banks in a deteriorating financial climate. They must hope buyers will not be deterred by the latest handout. The £21m floats at 3% over bank rate, meaning service charges estimated at more than £1.5m a year. Everton are already committed to paying £2.8m a year to Prudential in interest on a securitisation struck in 2002. With the best-paid players, Tim Cahill and Mikel Arteta, below, each picking up about £2m a year, the banks' interest bills are right up there with the club's biggest earners this season. City show new faces Manchester City have filed details at Companies House of a newly formed board, announcing the resignations of the five Thai directors - including Thaksin Shinawatra - last week. There has been a break with the past that even Thaksin did not effect following his takeover as Bernard Halford, the club secretary who had served them for more than three decades, parted company. The announcement confirms the appointment of Khaldoon Khalifa Al Mubarak as chairman while Simon Pearce has also become a director. But most intriguing are the directorial appointments of the Greek shipping magnate, Victor Restis, and Marty L Edelman, a New York-based lawyer, as "strategic adviser".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/oct/14/stokecity-boltonwanderers

Doesn't surprise me at all. The only thing I'm surprised at it that it doesn't affect more clubs. Still, worrying times indeed...

End of the day, were the ones who will owe them money.

Yes, they are being Nationalised, but there hardly going to ask for it back , they still need to operate as a business.

utter bollocks, written by someone who knows feck all about finance in general and understands less about the structured debt in place here.

If you were to question the impact of HBOS' position you'd look north first, as Bank of Scotland banks all but 2 of the SPL. Then the fact is that irrespective of who owns the banks the loans are contractually based, otherwise 2.5 million people would be walking away from Halifax mortgages. The nationalisation of Kaupthing does not make us debtors to a list of creditors at all. The reality is that this kind of debt would be sold on, not to mention one Mr E Davies underwriting it.

This kind of reporting is apalling, it's wrong on so many levels to the point where it's actually irresponsible.

I take it as long as we are able to service our debt (ie make payments) the situation from our end doesn't really change that much, does it?

repayments will still be at the same rate anyhow. Plus we don't have too mcuh debt do we? hence never spending much first 4-5 seasons in the prem....right?

Lord Kangana wrote:

I take it as long as we are able to service our debt (ie make payments) the situation from our end doesn't really change that much, does it?

That would be my view, LK - we are still obliged to pay certain amounts regardless of who owns the debt - and the payment schedule should not change.

As CWE alludes to our debt is underwritten by Eddie Davies.

If it weren't then we would have had to pay some of our debt off long before now. Even in 2004 IIRC the reason the club were so keen to get ED on board was that the Coop bank were threatening to call in a loan that we were struggling to repay.

communistworkethic wrote:

utter bollocks, written by someone who knows feck all about finance in general and understands less about the structured debt in place here. If you were to question the impact of HBOS' position you'd look north first, as Bank of Scotland banks all but 2 of the SPL. Then the fact is that irrespective of who owns the banks the loans are contractually based, otherwise 2.5 million people would be walking away from Halifax mortgages. The nationalisation of Kaupthing does not make us debtors to a list of creditors at all. The reality is that this kind of debt would be sold on, not to mention one Mr E Davies underwriting it. This kind of reporting is apalling, it's wrong on so many levels to the point where it's actually irresponsible.

Saved me a post this.

How do these journalists get away with such utter tripe?

it was the £6m overdraft with Co-op. IIRC


this is the message from the KS&F administrators to borrowers....

Business as usual
Although Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander Limited (“KS&F”) has gone into Administration, it is currently business as usual. KS&F has not ceased to trade. The Administration is necessary because of KS&F’s financial position and to ensure that it can continue to operate, and to ensure the best interests of customers and creditors are served.

What has happened?
On 8 October 2008 the High Court made an Administration Order in relation to KS&F. Maggie Mills, Tom Burton, Alan Bloom and Patrick Brazzill of Ernst & Young LLP were appointed as Joint Administrators of KS&F.

Operations
The purpose of the Administration Order is to seek to ensure the best long term solution can be adopted for customers and creditors, and whilst doing so, continuing the operations of KS&F.
We will continue to keep you updated with developments in respect of the long term plans for KS&F and notify you immediately if any changes are proposed to be made which will affect your current position.

If you are a customer with a residential, buy-to-let or commercial mortgage:

Your existing mortgage agreement remains in place
There is no intention to change the repayment profile of your mortgage and you are not being expected to refinance elsewhere
All existing early repayment charges and notice periods remain in force
You should continue to make payments in the usual way
If you are a customer with a mortgage offer:

No further loans will be provided
If you are a customer with an unsecured loan:

Your existing loan agreement remains in place
There is no intention to change the repayment profile of your loan and you are not being expected to refinance elsewhere
All existing early repayment charges and notice periods remain in force.
You should continue to make payments in the usual way.

Finally, we would like to re-iterate that our key objective is to ensure business as normal during this process. We shall keep you as fully informed of the situation as we are able as matters progress.

Maggie Mills, Tom Burton, Alan Bloom and Patrick Brazzill
Joint Administrators


The Insolvency Practitioners Association authorises Patrick Joseph Brazzill to act as an Insolvency Practitioner under section 390(2)(a) of the Insolvency Act 1986 and The Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland authorises Thomas Merchant Burton to act as an Insolvency Practitioner under section 390(2)(a) of the Insolvency Act 1986.

The Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales authorise A R Bloom and M E Mills to act as Insolvency Practitioners under section 390(2)(a) of the Insolvency Act 1986.

The affairs, business and property of Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander Limited are being managed by the Joint Administrators A R Bloom, M E Mills, T M Burton and P J Brazzill. The Joint Administrators act as agents of the Company only and without personal liability.

not exactly the words of a communist.....but .i understand nothing of high finance,
an excellent post on every level,wellwritten and factual (you will never get a job as a journalist )

cant believe people write stuff like that in the guardian

you'd understand the basic level in the sun or something, but, ahhhh

and the author got paid for that

jesus wept

WANDERERS-FUSSELIER wrote:

not exactly the words of a communist.....but .

And I am a bottle of Spanish wine, Sir. You a Fusselier. Officer Dibble is actually a cartoon policeman on Topcat.

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:

As CWE alludes to our debt is underwritten by Eddie Davies.

Yes but how secure is Mr Davies?



He's certainly wasn't as rich as the Icelandic bank owning chairman of West Ham - and look what's happened to him!

As I stated in my thread 'West Ham Fecked?' I do hope that Eddie's business / personal wealth is secure otherwise we might find ourselves doing a Gretna!

Bruce Rioja wrote:

WANDERERS-FUSSELIER wrote: not exactly the words of a communist.....but . And I am a bottle of Spanish wine, Sir. You a Fusselier. Officer Dibble is actually a cartoon policeman on Topcat.

What exactly IS a Fusselier?

William the White wrote:

Bruce Rioja wrote: WANDERERS-FUSSELIER wrote: not exactly the words of a communist.....but . And I am a bottle of Spanish wine, Sir. You a Fusselier. Officer Dibble is actually a cartoon policeman on Topcat. What exactly IS a Fusselier?

I've no idea. It redoubles my point.

sluffy wrote:

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote: As CWE alludes to our debt is underwritten by Eddie Davies. Yes but how secure is Mr Davies? He's certainly wasn't as rich as the Icelandic bank owning chairman of West Ham - and look what's happened to him! As I stated in my thread 'West Ham Fecked?' I do hope that Eddie's business / personal wealth is secure otherwise we might find ourselves doing a Gretna!

Not sure the two are comparable Sluffy. One "owned" a bank (or part of it) which has gone bust. The other earned some money from a business which he sold to a bank (ABN AMRO), so in that sense it's cash in his pocket. Not sure where he stuck said cash though - although some of it is in Burnden Leisure (obviously) and I suspect the rest wasn't parked under his matress..

Bruce Rioja wrote:

William the White wrote: Bruce Rioja wrote: WANDERERS-FUSSELIER wrote: not exactly the words of a communist.....but . And I am a bottle of Spanish wine, Sir. You a Fusselier. Officer Dibble is actually a cartoon policeman on Topcat. What exactly IS a Fusselier? I've no idea. It redoubles my point.

Someone who Fusselies, i suppose?

The only fly in the ointment I can see is that, as far as I understand, individual savers/investors have been given precedence over corporate and commercial clients with regard to reclaiming money from Icelandic institutions.

Which, unless BWFC/Davies have some juicy ISA's sitting in Rekjavik, doesn't really apply to us, as I suspect its we who owe the bank not vice-versa.

Worthy4England wrote:

sluffy wrote: bristol_Wanderer3 wrote: As CWE alludes to our debt is underwritten by Eddie Davies. Yes but how secure is Mr Davies? He's certainly wasn't as rich as the Icelandic bank owning chairman of West Ham - and look what's happened to him! As I stated in my thread 'West Ham Fecked?' I do hope that Eddie's business / personal wealth is secure otherwise we might find ourselves doing a Gretna! Not sure the two are comparable Sluffy. One "owned" a bank (or part of it) which has gone bust. The other earned some money from a business which he sold to a bank (ABN AMRO), so in that sense it's cash in his pocket. Not sure where he stuck said cash though - although some of it is in Burnden Leisure (obviously) and I suspect the rest wasn't parked under his matress..

My point is that we are dependent on the largess of one man, so his financial well being directly affects the club.

A very wealthy individual owns West Ham - or at least he was very wealthy!

So if Mr Davies financial circumstances catch a cold - it will be the club which will end up sneezing.

Hence my best wishes for Eddie's business / personal financial wellbeing - I hope he's not been investing in Icelandic banks recently!