It's not just us "muppets" Fat Phil...

Gary the Enfield · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 3:33 pm

Okay, so you can't produce the quotes. If, as BWFCi says he's had his house broken into I think Gartside's been quite restrained in calling some supporters muppets, don't you?

As far as not valuing the opinion of the fans? On this you're wrong. A chairman who doesn't value the opinion of his 'customers' would not have lasted as long as he has.

thebish · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 3:41 pm

Andy Waller wrote:

thebish wrote:

Andy Waller wrote:

Then again, if I'd not spent a bloody fortune following BWFC over the years just to see it go all in the shit-pan

can you spell this one out for me - cos I really don't get it.

did you not enjoy all those years of support? have you had great times? has it been a big life-changing part of your life and a place where you have met people and cemented lifelong friendships??

if any of that is true - can you explain how it has gone down the shit pan?

have you lost those memories now? have your friends deserted you? :conf:

So you think the club, having been in a position of strength, is on the slide?

I've had great memories all my life of the Wanderers, even when we were crap but I think after all that hard work, it's being left to drift away.

Like I said, I've had great times with BWFC, I just wouldn't mind having a few more.

yes - and they haven't gone - have they??? what (precisely) is "being left to drift away" ???

Andy Waller · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 4:05 pm

thebish wrote:

Andy Waller wrote:

thebish wrote:

Andy Waller wrote:

Then again, if I'd not spent a bloody fortune following BWFC over the years just to see it go all in the shit-pan

can you spell this one out for me - cos I really don't get it.

did you not enjoy all those years of support? have you had great times? has it been a big life-changing part of your life and a place where you have met people and cemented lifelong friendships??

if any of that is true - can you explain how it has gone down the shit pan?

have you lost those memories now? have your friends deserted you? :conf:

So you think the club, having been in a position of strength, is on the slide?

I've had great memories all my life of the Wanderers, even when we were crap but I think after all that hard work, it's being left to drift away.

Like I said, I've had great times with BWFC, I just wouldn't mind having a few more.

yes - and they haven't gone - have they??? what (precisely) is "being left to drift away" ???

I'm sure there will be good and bad times ahead, but we don't look like going in the right direction.

Or do we?

Andy Waller · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 4:07 pm

Gary the Enfield wrote:

Okay, so you can't produce the quotes. If, as BWFCi says he's had his house broken into I think Gartside's been quite restrained in calling some supporters muppets, don't you?

As far as not valuing the opinion of the fans? On this you're wrong. A chairman who doesn't value the opinion of his 'customers' would not have lasted as long as he has.

Some tit breaking into his house is a totally different matter. He was describing the people who rang in to GMR.

He's lasted this long as he struck gold in Big Sam and has been riding the wave ever since.

boltonboris · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 4:08 pm

Andy Waller wrote:

Gary the Enfield wrote:

Okay, so you can't produce the quotes. If, as BWFCi says he's had his house broken into I think Gartside's been quite restrained in calling some supporters muppets, don't you?

As far as not valuing the opinion of the fans? On this you're wrong. A chairman who doesn't value the opinion of his 'customers' would not have lasted as long as he has.

Some tit breaking into his house is a totally different matter. He was describing the people who rang in to GMR.

He's lasted this long as he struck gold in Big Sam and has been riding the wave ever since.

Who? Sam or Phil?

Andy Waller · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 4:17 pm

boltonboris wrote:

Andy Waller wrote:

Gary the Enfield wrote:

Okay, so you can't produce the quotes. If, as BWFCi says he's had his house broken into I think Gartside's been quite restrained in calling some supporters muppets, don't you?

As far as not valuing the opinion of the fans? On this you're wrong. A chairman who doesn't value the opinion of his 'customers' would not have lasted as long as he has.

Some tit breaking into his house is a totally different matter. He was describing the people who rang in to GMR.

He's lasted this long as he struck gold in Big Sam and has been riding the wave ever since.

Who? Sam or Phil?

Phil.

boltonboris · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 4:21 pm

Ah.. Because you described Allardyce there, too.

Andy Waller · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 4:29 pm

boltonboris wrote:

Ah.. Because you described Allardyce there, too.

Of course. But whatever Big Sam does is West Ham's problem now.

BWFC_Insane · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 4:32 pm

Andy Waller wrote:

boltonboris wrote:

Ah.. Because you described Allardyce there, too.

Of course. But whatever Big Sam does is West Ham's problem now.

When Gartside took over we were 6th bottom in the championship, weeks away from administration.

We are now backed by an owner with very little bank debt, own the facilities have grown the fan base and spent longer in the top flight than at any other point in the preceding 50 years.

I don't see how under any circumstances you can say what he's done overall has been anything other than superb? At the time he took over 2 consecutive premiership years was a pipe dream.

Gary the Enfield · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 4:58 pm

Andy Waller wrote:

Gary the Enfield wrote:

Okay, so you can't produce the quotes. If, as BWFCi says he's had his house broken into I think Gartside's been quite restrained in calling some supporters muppets, don't you?

As far as not valuing the opinion of the fans? On this you're wrong. A chairman who doesn't value the opinion of his 'customers' would not have lasted as long as he has.

Some tit breaking into his house is a totally different matter. He was describing the people who rang in to GMR.

He's lasted this long as he struck gold in Big Sam and has been riding the wave ever since.

For which you can't provide the quotes.

We could do this all day, when in actual fact all you need to put at the beginning or end of your diatribe is 'In my opinion'

I can ignore it then.

thebish · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 5:21 pm

Andy Waller wrote:

I'm sure there will be good and bad times ahead, but we don't look like going in the right direction.

Or do we?

it wouldn't make any difference what lies ahead - what you have had and enjoyed you will ALWAYS have had and enjoyed - none of the past is going - it is still there. your memories and enjoyment watching Bolton over the years - you will always have - they are not going down the shit pan. none of the last years are made a waste of time or worthless because we have been relegated.

ohjimmyjimmy · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 5:24 pm

Some (if not most) of my best memories are from the lower league days and the trying to make the big time days. These will happen again, might take 5 years, 10, whatever.

H. Pedersen · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 6:34 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:

Its easy to say "we should have done this or that" but we're not in the full posession of the facts in any decision. In fact in most cases what we actually know and think turns out to be wrong.........

But what behind the scenes, ITK knowledge would justify Coyle's failure to sort out the defense, or his rigid adherence to 4-4-2? This is something that Gartside should have addressed. We'd probably still be a Premier League team. And I'm not having the "that's not his job" argument. A boss isn't limited to hiring and firing an employee.

BWFC_Insane · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 6:54 pm

H. Pedersen wrote:

BWFC_Insane wrote:

Its easy to say "we should have done this or that" but we're not in the full posession of the facts in any decision. In fact in most cases what we actually know and think turns out to be wrong.........

But what behind the scenes, ITK knowledge would justify Coyle's failure to sort out the defense, or his rigid adherence to 4-4-2? This is something that Gartside should have addressed. We'd probably still be a Premier League team. And I'm not having the "that's not his job" argument. A boss isn't limited to hiring and firing an employee.

You won't get argument from me that Coyle should have gone. I think he should.

But for instance what if Gartside wanted to sack him but Eddie said no?

Or what if what they see of Coyle and what he's doing in their view outweighs the short term first team results?

For me he should have gone in November. But as I say, in full possession of the facts and knowing the personalities involved that opinion could just as easily change!

H. Pedersen · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 7:15 pm

I'm not even talking about sacking him though. Hasn't your boss ever given you constructive criticism? Hasn't he suggested a different way of doing things? Or does Garside only have two settings, "ignore" and "fire?"

BWFC_Insane · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 7:23 pm

H. Pedersen wrote:

I'm not even talking about sacking him though. Hasn't your boss ever given you constructive criticism? Hasn't he suggested a different way of doing things? Or does Garside only have two settings, "ignore" and "fire?"

Coyle is the specialist. Gartside is not a qualified football manager and quite rightly does not interfer in footballing matters.

So you are correct in that Gartside is either 'ignore' or 'fire' when it comes to the manager. That's how it fecking should be.

Prufrock · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 7:51 pm

Indeed. Presumably HP thinks the Abramovich style buying players the manager doesn't want and then picking the team is the right way?

Gartside should have nowt to do with the football side besides hiring and firing the manager. The notion that that is all there is to do at a football club is absurd.

H. Pedersen · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 7:59 pm

I have to disagree. Everyone except Owen Coyle and his staff could tell that the tactics last season were not optimal. Gartside should have told him to start getting results or he'd be out of a job. That's not buying players or picking the team, it's just what any employer should do with a failing employee. We're in the Championship in large part because Coyle knew there was nothing he could do that would get him sacked.

Prufrock · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 8:52 pm

I think he should have been sacked. I think Gartside got that wrong. That doesn't make him incompetent. IMO he should have sacked Coyle in November. At no point should he have started telling Coyle how to actually do the job of managing though!

BWFC_Insane · **Posted:** Mon May 28, 2012 8:54 pm

H. Pedersen wrote:

I have to disagree. Everyone except Owen Coyle and his staff could tell that the tactics last season were not optimal. Gartside should have told him to start getting results or he'd be out of a job. That's not buying players or picking the team, it's just what any employer should do with a failing employee. We're in the Championship in large part because Coyle knew there was nothing he could do that would get him sacked.

You must exist in a completely different universe to me......

It's not just us "muppets" Fat Phil...

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