Are we an "unprofessional" professional football club?

a1 · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 9:34 pm

plymouth wanderer wrote:

Still the best manager the club has ever had tho

you'd think it'd be this dude

on account of actually winning stuff

H. Pedersen · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 9:42 pm

Gary Megson was the one with the enormous squad. We never had a big squad under Allardyce – we played my cousin Henrik at left back for crying out loud. He also brought a few young players through in addition to the golden oldies.

As for the back room staff, I don’t think this was nearly as costly as people make it out to be. Again, just look at the debt. It didn’t explode until after Allardyce left and took his staff with him.

BWFC_Insane · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 10:24 pm

As much as what Allardyce achieved with us was amazing, let's get some perspective, he's been sacked from Newcastle and Blackburn and has had to go down a division to manage now. And has only managed promotion via the play offs (they will win tomorrow I think) with a huge budget for that division.

Not many clubs in the prem would want him.

He did great for us, but you don't go back. He thought he could do better than us and he hasn't.

Too much of an ego and ultimately too much baggage.

Gave us great times but once he'd gone that was it, move on, no other choice.

Jakerbeef · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 10:30 pm

With that extra transfer cash he could have got us champions league football/financial ruin.

Discuss.

bw@bw · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 10:42 pm

plymouth wanderer wrote:

He would want his 300 back room staff back plus about 35 senior players who would be on alot more than we could afford not to mention most of them would probably be on the wrong side of 30

Nothing wrong with that setup but its not good for a club of our size and spending power that's half of the reason where in the trouble now

Im afraid that ship has sailed

Still the best manager the club has ever had tho

Back is a bad direction to go - so agree that the ship has passed

BUT

When we had the large sports science team we only had a first team squad of 21, plus youngsters.

The entire sports science team would have cost less than half of 1 premiership player.

And they enabled us to prolong the careers of some very good players - who came to us knowing that we would benefit them

So the sports science setup was tremendous value for money and should be reinstated

Jakerbeef · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 10:43 pm

Including that ominous cryogenic room they'd put Diouf in to calm him down.

H. Pedersen · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 10:51 pm

Jakerbeef wrote:

With that extra transfer cash he could have got us champions league football/financial ruin.

Discuss.

The standard argument is that we didn't have the money at that point, and only had the money we used to fund the Megson Spending Orgy due to TV deals that kicked in after Megson left.

I'd counter that Davies and Gartside knew full well the money was coming down the pipeline and should have known that Sam wasn't content to work on a shoestring budget forever. Unfortunately is seems you don't need foresight to hold down a £500,000 a year job.

plymouth wanderer · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 10:52 pm

bw@bw wrote:

plymouth wanderer wrote:

He would want his 300 back room staff back plus about 35 senior players who would be on alot more than we could afford not to mention most of them would probably be on the wrong side of 30

Nothing wrong with that setup but its not good for a club of our size and spending power that's half of the reason where in the trouble now

Im afraid that ship has sailed

Still the best manager the club has ever had tho

Back is a bad direction to go - so agree that the ship has passed

BUT

When we had the large sports science team we only had a first team squad of 21, plus youngsters.

The entire sports science team would have cost less than half of 1 premiership player.

And they enabled us to prolong the careers of some very good players - who came to us knowing that we would benefit them

So the sports science setup was tremendous value for money and should be reinstated

Well you live and learn as they say

lets bring it back shit maybe we could get HOMO to start spreading it like the plague on every thread and maybe garty will listen

Hoboh · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 10:57 pm

plymouth wanderer wrote:

bw@bw wrote:

plymouth wanderer wrote:

He would want his 300 back room staff back plus about 35 senior players who would be on alot more than we could afford not to mention most of them would probably be on the wrong side of 30

Nothing wrong with that setup but its not good for a club of our size and spending power that's half of the reason where in the trouble now

Im afraid that ship has sailed

Still the best manager the club has ever had tho

Back is a bad direction to go - so agree that the ship has passed

BUT

When we had the large sports science team we only had a first team squad of 21, plus youngsters.

The entire sports science team would have cost less than half of 1 premiership player.

And they enabled us to prolong the careers of some very good players - who came to us knowing that we would benefit them

So the sports science setup was tremendous value for money and should be reinstated

Well you live and learn as they say

lets bring it back shit maybe we could get HOMO to start spreading it like the plague on every thread and maybe garty will listen

Just WTF are you impyling :whack:

midlands exile · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 11:43 pm

Would have big Sam back in a flash. The complete antithesis of Coyle, and exactly what is needed to rectify the chronic issues on the pitch. Get them fit, get them motivated, get them organised, get the crowd believing anything is possible, get the Reebok into a fortress again.

Never gonna happen with gartside at the helm though, due to their history. If it was a choice of which one to have at the club, which one could bring the most to the party, it would be big Sam every time.

Armchair Wanderer · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 11:52 pm

midlands exile wrote:

Would have big Sam back in a flash. The complete antithesis of Coyle, and exactly what is needed to rectify the chronic issues on the pitch. Get them fit, get them motivated, get them organised, get the crowd believing anything is possible, get the Reebok into a fortress again.

Never gonna happen with gartside at the helm though, due to their history. If it was a choice of which one to have at the club, which one could bring the most to the party, it would be big Sam every time.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but the best atmosphere I've seen at the Reebok was with Coyle as manager. I'm not sure I want another BSA or Megson. I just want someone to play attacking football, passing the ball and not afraid to use any of his squad of players. I think there's a chance we could get this next season in the championship. Will be interesting to see how it goes at least, can't get any worse, surely.

midlands exile · **Posted:** Sat May 19, 2012 12:01 am

Armchair Wanderer wrote:

midlands exile wrote:

Would have big Sam back in a flash. The complete antithesis of Coyle, and exactly what is needed to rectify the chronic issues on the pitch. Get them fit, get them motivated, get them organised, get the crowd believing anything is possible, get the Reebok into a fortress again.

Never gonna happen with gartside at the helm though, due to their history. If it was a choice of which one to have at the club, which one could bring the most to the party, it would be big Sam every time.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but the best atmosphere I've seen at the Reebok was with Coyle as manager. I'm not sure I want another BSA or Megson. I just want someone to play attacking football, passing the ball and not afraid to use any of his squad of players. I think there's a chance we could get this next season in the championship. Will be interesting to see how it goes at least, can't get any worse, surely.

An atmosphere last regularly seen well over a year ago. Maybe in the last days of Sam, the footie got a bit staid, but what I'll remember is winning football, sometimes pretty, sometimes ugly. Sometimes out of this world. Look at the thread on the best memories, so many of those came under his reign.

Next season I'm hoping for the best, I really am. Unfortunately, I'm expecting the worst....

plymouth wanderer · **Posted:** Sat May 19, 2012 6:37 am

Hoboh wrote:

plymouth wanderer wrote:

bw@bw wrote:

plymouth wanderer wrote:

He would want his 300 back room staff back plus about 35 senior players who would be on alot more than we could afford not to mention most of them would probably be on the wrong side of 30

Nothing wrong with that setup but its not good for a club of our size and spending power that's half of the reason where in the trouble now

Im afraid that ship has sailed

Still the best manager the club has ever had tho

Back is a bad direction to go - so agree that the ship has passed

BUT

When we had the large sports science team we only had a first team squad of 21, plus youngsters.

The entire sports science team would have cost less than half of 1 premiership player.

And they enabled us to prolong the careers of some very good players - who came to us knowing that we would benefit them

So the sports science setup was tremendous value for money and should be reinstated

Well you live and learn as they say

lets bring it back shit maybe we could get HOMO to start spreading it like the plague on every thread and maybe garty will listen

Just WTF are you impyling :whack:

nothing at all sweety nothing at all

BWFC_Insane · **Posted:** Sat May 19, 2012 7:24 am

H. Pedersen wrote:

Jakerbeef wrote:

With that extra transfer cash he could have got us champions league football/financial ruin.

Discuss.

The standard argument is that we didn't have the money at that point, and only had the money we used to fund the Megson Spending Orgy due to TV deals that kicked in after Megson left.

I'd counter that Davies and Gartside knew full well the money was coming down the pipeline and should have known that Sam wasn't content to work on a shoestring budget forever. Unfortunately is seems you don't need foresight to hold down a £500,000 a year job.

Do you think Sam wanted to sell Anelka, Diouf, Nolan etc to spend or do you think he just wanted money?

He wanted 30M quid to spend according to PG. I can only assume without balancing any of it out by selling his better players. So a) we never and have never had that kind of money to spend. And b) given what we know now thank god we didn't give it him or we'd probably not have a club to watch full stop.

Also it was Eddies money he wanted. And was eddies decision. He presented a plan which included doubling the price of tickets. Thankfully Eddie Davies was not stupid. Sam was bored either way and wanted out. He had asked to leave the season before but PG persuaded him not to. Nobody in their right mind would have given him that money, given we didn't have it and also given we'd have driven away a lot of fans with his ticket pricing plan.

boltonboris · **Posted:** Tue May 22, 2012 10:57 am

Under Allardyce, for the early Premiership years, all 4 sides of the ground were packed with Bolton fans. We knew that we could give the away fans about half of the South Stand and we'd fill the rest.

The atmosphere was great and the memories better.

You know why? Because we were good.

BWFC_Insane · **Posted:** Tue May 22, 2012 11:02 am

boltonboris wrote:

Under Allardyce, for the early Premiership years, all 4 sides of the ground were packed with Bolton fans. We knew that we could give the away fans about half of the South Stand and we'd fill the rest.

The atmosphere was great and the memories better.

You know why? Because we were good.

Not just that we were good, but because we were experiencing new things on an adventure of the like the club hadn't seen for a long long time.

It brought old fans back and new fans in. Some of them have drifted away even before Allardyce left, cos the novelty wore off!

boltonboris · **Posted:** Tue May 22, 2012 11:06 am

The novelty wore off, aye. It stopped being fun and started to get serious.

The 'football' reflected it. We went from entertaining, plucky minnows with serious abiluity to a chess board. And despite everybody (at the time) defending our style and saying that needs must, the media (and other fans / managers') criticism was pretty much just.

Edit: In my opinion.

But I wouldn't swap it for the world. Without the staid, stagnant and at times dreadful football, we wouldn't have had the European adventures.

H. Pedersen · **Posted:** Tue May 22, 2012 3:43 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:

He wanted 30M quid to spend according to PG. I can only assume without balancing any of it out by selling his better players. So a) we never and have never had that kind of money to spend. And b) given what we know now thank god we didn't give it him or we'd probably not have a club to watch full stop.

But since then we've lost well over £30 million due to firing two managers, signing overpriced players, finishing in the bottom half, and now finally getting relegated. I strongly suspect Gartside and Davies wish they could take a Mulligan on that one.

boltonboris · **Posted:** Tue May 22, 2012 3:45 pm

Hindsight's great innit

BWFC_Insane · **Posted:** Tue May 22, 2012 3:56 pm

H. Pedersen wrote:

BWFC_Insane wrote:

He wanted 30M quid to spend according to PG. I can only assume without balancing any of it out by selling his better players. So a) we never and have never had that kind of money to spend. And b) given what we know now thank god we didn't give it him or we'd probably not have a club to watch full stop.

But since then we've lost well over £30 million due to firing two managers, signing overpriced players, finishing in the bottom half, and now finally getting relegated. I strongly suspect Gartside and Davies wish they could take a Mulligan on that one.

Do you? So even if they managed to find the imaginary £30M quid in one window (that we've never had) and let Allardyce spend it, and increase the wage bill etc...

Whats the best outcome? We get in the champions league, and then what? He wants more or he goes.

Or we don't get in the champions league and he wants more and he goes.

Leaving us with the same situation we're in now, just with a far higher wage bill, far less money and a far shitter position, probably a terminal position.

Allardyce just wanted a way out. He knew the club wouldn't back his plans to double and treble ticket prices, and to get rid of the academy to fund more signings and for Eddie to hand over 30M of his own cash.

He wanted a way out, where he could blame someone else. Which is a shame. Cos if he'd said "I've done all I can here but my times up" it would have been a lot more graceful.

Are we an "unprofessional" professional football club?

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