poll where are the people who think OC is any good

Lord Kangana · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 11:52 am

It would have been his McCann moment, no doubting it.

norm the jedi · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 11:57 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:

The big issue was energy. Vela would have added legs and running into a central midfield that was clearly knackered. Not ideal, but I'd say essential if we were to hang on.

Anyone in the squad with more energy than CYL
he's been sat on his arse for a year :wink:

BWFC_Insane · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 12:00 pm

Lord Kangana wrote:

It would have been his McCann moment, no doubting it.

Eh? It was that moment, when we needed extra bodies in midfield.........It was the identical situation to the Hull game, except even worse because we scored the second with 18 minutes to go, the our striker became our secondary left back and the manager stuck on a winger who hadn't played for 9 months.....

Tombwfc · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 12:45 pm

We couldn't have gone more defensive if he'd have stood them all on the goal-line.

It wasn't like we were trying to get a third and got caught. We were trying to defend, but with attackers.

Puskas · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 1:00 pm

Tombwfc wrote:

We couldn't have gone more defensive if he'd have stood them all on the goal-line.

It wasn't like we were trying to get a third and got caught. We were trying to defend, but with attackers.

This is exactly the point (I said the same thing, on another forum, far away...).

Bring on Klasnic, if you must, but have the courage of your convictions, and attack them. Don't bring on your attacking players, and then sit back to try to hold the lead. That's just stupid.

Dave Sutton's barnet · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 1:10 pm

Puskas wrote:

Bring on Klasnic, if you must, but have the courage of your convictions, and attack them. Don't bring on your attacking players, and then sit back to try to hold the lead. That's just stupid.

Likesay, Coyle was urging them forward. So there was a disconnect between personnel and intention (in that the personnel had no intention of following orders).

Hoboh · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 1:10 pm

Look I am not the only one who has thought this, even under Megson the level of fitness and energy seem poor in comparrison with other clubs and sure as hell not good enough for the Prem!
This begs questions; are our players a bunch of pudding munching p*ssheads? Do we still have a proper fitness set up and a sergeant major type to implement it? My own view is Gartside and Megson dismantled the setup after BSA Left to save cash and Coyle and buddies are too thick to set it up again.
Not Coyles fault the injuries but they do seem to drag on and I put this down to the fitness regieme, they are not at the levels they should be.
Tactics and subs, the man is clueless, totally inept and the fabled man management flew out the window when he started finger pointing at, and blaming individual players in the press, his judgement of setting up a team to support him looks to be a farce so on what level does Coyle come any where near being good enought to manage in the Prem?
And I'm sorry but the next person that suggests he's been unlucky because of what happened to Moo, I hope your balls drop off! Coyle did nowt but mess with Muamba to our expense!!

Puskas · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 1:12 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:

Puskas wrote:

Bring on Klasnic, if you must, but have the courage of your convictions, and attack them. Don't bring on your attacking players, and then sit back to try to hold the lead. That's just stupid.

Likesay, Coyle was urging them forward. So there was a disconnect between personnel and intention (in that the personnel had no intention of following orders).

Was he? Oh. I didn't notice. But then I was staring at the pitch with a growing sense of dread...

BWFC_Insane · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 1:16 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:

Puskas wrote:

Bring on Klasnic, if you must, but have the courage of your convictions, and attack them. Don't bring on your attacking players, and then sit back to try to hold the lead. That's just stupid.

Likesay, Coyle was urging them forward. So there was a disconnect between personnel and intention (in that the personnel had no intention of following orders).

I'd be surprised if Kevin Davies ignored orders and went to play at left back himself for the last 10 minutes....

Dave Sutton's barnet · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 1:21 pm

Lord Kangana wrote:

It would have been his McCann moment, no doubting it.

I have to disagree, LK.

I mentioned McCann in another post but the point was that bringing on McCann (hard worker) for Klasnic (goal threat) against Hull was seen as the nadir of Megson's miserable defensiveness. To sum up Coyle's overly optimistic attacking outlook, he'd have to bring on a goal threat when a hard worker was needed. That's exactly what he did, and (whether by decree or disaster) we surrendered control in a vital game.

Had he brought on Vela for a forward and still dropped two points, it would have caused angst and widespread catcalling but it wouldn't have been seen as typical of a blinkered managerial approach. It would have been a different calamity, but not the personification of the manager's major fault.

We've suffered all season because we didn't have enough diligent midfielders - whether through injury (Holden), fitness (NRC lately), failure to adapt (Mavies), being dropped/subbed (Muamba). Some of that is bad luck for Coyle. Some is his bad decision-making. For the last 14 months, since we stopped being able to rely on Holden and Muamba doing the work of three men in central midfield, we have simply had too soft a centre. To quote a Yeats poem I quoted in Tripe 'n' Trotters when we last went down in disorganised shambles:

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned.

Dave Sutton's barnet · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 1:22 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:

Puskas wrote:

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:

Puskas wrote:

Bring on Klasnic, if you must, but have the courage of your convictions, and attack them. Don't bring on your attacking players, and then sit back to try to hold the lead. That's just stupid.

Likesay, Coyle was urging them forward. So there was a disconnect between personnel and intention (in that the personnel had no intention of following orders).

Was he? Oh. I didn't notice. But then I was staring at the pitch with a growing sense of dread...

I'd be surprised if Kevin Davies ignored orders and went to play at left back himself for the last 10 minutes....

Source: Coyle's post-match interview.

BWFC_Insane · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 1:24 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:

BWFC_Insane wrote:

Puskas wrote:

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:

Puskas wrote:

Bring on Klasnic, if you must, but have the courage of your convictions, and attack them. Don't bring on your attacking players, and then sit back to try to hold the lead. That's just stupid.

Likesay, Coyle was urging them forward. So there was a disconnect between personnel and intention (in that the personnel had no intention of following orders).

Was he? Oh. I didn't notice. But then I was staring at the pitch with a growing sense of dread...

I'd be surprised if Kevin Davies ignored orders and went to play at left back himself for the last 10 minutes....

Source: Coyle's post-match interview.

I'm not doubting you or Coyle. I'm sure he wanted us to push up.

But we had a midfield that couldn't keep the ball at the best of times, Klasnic isolated on his own (and hardly known for pressing a team and keeping the ball), and a winger who'd not played for 9 months.

I don't think with what we had on the pitch we were capable of doing much else than sitting back and hoping......

Sponge · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 1:38 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:

I'm not doubting you or Coyle. I'm sure he wanted us to push up.

But we had a midfield that couldn't keep the ball at the best of times, Klasnic isolated on his own (and hardly known for pressing a team and keeping the ball), and a winger who'd not played for 9 months.

I don't think with what we had on the pitch we were capable of doing much else than sitting back and hoping......

Not great, no. But then our other options weren't saying much either: Miyaichi, a kid who's probably been giving the ball away more than other player in recent games, or Vela, another kid who's played twenty minutes of Premier League football in his life and, while showing enthusiasm and energy, in my opinion looked reckless both on and off the ball (witness his challenge on Kyle Walker—could have been a straight red).

Lord Kangana · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 2:00 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:

Lord Kangana wrote:

It would have been his McCann moment, no doubting it.

I have to disagree, LK.

I mentioned McCann in another post but the point was that bringing on McCann (hard worker) for Klasnic (goal threat) against Hull was seen as the nadir of Megson's miserable defensiveness. To sum up Coyle's overly optimistic attacking outlook, he'd have to bring on a goal threat when a hard worker was needed. That's exactly what he did, and (whether by decree or disaster) we surrendered control in a vital game.

Had he brought on Vela for a forward and still dropped two points, it would have caused angst and widespread catcalling but it wouldn't have been seen as typical of a blinkered managerial approach. It would have been a different calamity, but not the personification of the manager's major fault.

We've suffered all season because we didn't have enough diligent midfielders - whether through injury (Holden), fitness (NRC lately), failure to adapt (Mavies), being dropped/subbed (Muamba). Some of that is bad luck for Coyle. Some is his bad decision-making. For the last 14 months, since we stopped being able to rely on Holden and Muamba doing the work of three men in central midfield, we have simply had too soft a centre. To quote a Yeats poem I quoted in Tripe 'n' Trotters when we last went down in disorganised shambles:

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned.

I still maintain that hwould have been vilified for bringing a kid on at such an important juncture. And I do not believe his inexperience would have contributed positively under the circumstances. In that respect, it would have been his McCann moment.

And just to pick you up on a previous point about Mancini, his substitution were not defensive. He brought on a player to free up Yaya Toure who subsequently scored the winning goals. Gavin McCan was brought on instead of an attcking threat with no intention of going on the offensive or freeing up anyone to do likes, and we conceded the equaliser. A very subtle but significant difference.

Dave Sutton's barnet · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 2:03 pm

Lord Kangana wrote:

And just to pick you up on a previous point about Mancini, his substitution were not defensive. He brought on a player to free up Yaya Toure who subsequently scored the winning goals. Gavin McCan was brought on instead of an attcking threat with no intention of going on the offensive or freeing up anyone to do likes, and we conceded the equaliser. A very subtle but significant difference.

Except bringing on Micah Richards for David Silva on Sunday. And Micah Richards for David Silva last Monday. And Nigel De Jong for Carlos Tevez last Monday.

But yeah, I get your point about Toure, unlike a million keyboard coaches at the time.

BWFC_Insane · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 2:04 pm

Lord Kangana wrote:

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:

Lord Kangana wrote:

It would have been his McCann moment, no doubting it.

I have to disagree, LK.

I mentioned McCann in another post but the point was that bringing on McCann (hard worker) for Klasnic (goal threat) against Hull was seen as the nadir of Megson's miserable defensiveness. To sum up Coyle's overly optimistic attacking outlook, he'd have to bring on a goal threat when a hard worker was needed. That's exactly what he did, and (whether by decree or disaster) we surrendered control in a vital game.

Had he brought on Vela for a forward and still dropped two points, it would have caused angst and widespread catcalling but it wouldn't have been seen as typical of a blinkered managerial approach. It would have been a different calamity, but not the personification of the manager's major fault.

We've suffered all season because we didn't have enough diligent midfielders - whether through injury (Holden), fitness (NRC lately), failure to adapt (Mavies), being dropped/subbed (Muamba). Some of that is bad luck for Coyle. Some is his bad decision-making. For the last 14 months, since we stopped being able to rely on Holden and Muamba doing the work of three men in central midfield, we have simply had too soft a centre. To quote a Yeats poem I quoted in Tripe 'n' Trotters when we last went down in disorganised shambles:

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned.

I still maintain that hwould have been vilified for bringing a kid on at such an important juncture. And I do not believe his inexperience would have contributed positively under the circumstances. In that respect, it would have been his McCann moment.

And just to pick you up on a previous point about Mancini, his substitution were not defensive. He brought on a player to free up Yaya Toure who subsequently scored the winning goals. Gavin McCan was brought on instead of an attcking threat with no intention of going on the offensive or freeing up anyone to do likes, and we conceded the equaliser. A very subtle but significant difference.

But McCann was brought on to try and hold a lead.

Had Megson brought on a striker he'd be been criticised for that, in the same way you're arguing Coyle would if he'd brought Vela on.

It was as poor a capitulation as the Hull game. In either case you can make an argument it weren't the managers fault......in both cases, as ever, the bottom line is the result wasn't good enough and only one person takes the ultimate responsibility for that, irrespective of all t'other fluffery!

boltonboris · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 2:18 pm

In both cases. In the aftermath of the game, the management were critical of the players for sitting deep when they ordered to push a higher line.

Hoboh · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 2:54 pm

boltonboris wrote:

In both cases. In the aftermath of the game, the management were critical of the players for sitting deep when they ordered to push a higher line.

So discipline at the club is terrible, can you imagine red nose or others letting that happen? Shows a lack of respect or indifference to the manager and most companies would soon latch on to the weak link!

boltonboris · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 2:55 pm

You mean like they did during the 6-1 against City, or during the 4-4 with Everton this season?

Nah, it'd never happen at Old Trafford

Hoboh · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 2:58 pm

boltonboris wrote:

You mean like they did during the 6-1 against City, or during the 4-4 with Everton this season?

Nah, it'd never happen at Old Trafford

If I remember correctly against city red nose said they were doing too much pressing, the "utd" way, the way he instilled in the team, not sitting back

poll where are the people who think OC is any good

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