Wake up.

And smell the conspiracy theory??? I just happen to think that my personal freedoms come with a degree of responsibility - to ensure the safety and security of the majority. I care not if I'm captured on CCTV 12 times a day, why should I? If the cops or the security services want to read my emails or my facebook page, feel free (They're monitoring them and my phone calls anyway) it's of little consequence.

i *think* they have to get warrants for most of that kinda stuff, they'll *probably* still have to.

i'm not sure i've understood it properly, but, one of the points is that "stmp/pop3/imap" 'push' email (maybe just the headers parts) are kept for 12 months but webmail (gmail , hotmail) arent currently. -well they are coz google / microsoft are 'personal info advertizement crazy' - but legal wise they dont have to. this thingy bill will change that so its the same.

iirc , it took the spooks ages to figure out how to tap skype and the likes.

tinhat for sale.

The bit in bold Istand shoulder to shoulder the red bit is just soooo wrong!! I am not thy keeper.

Sorry, disagree completely with this. They're welcome to go through my e-mails if and only if they've got an appropriate warrant. It's nothing to do with the "nothing to hide" bollocks that's often trotted out, if I wanted what I send in e-mails bought to the attention of some random Enforcement team, I'd CC them I'm.

Exaclee. The guiding principle for the relationship between the state and the individual should be 'feck off and leave us alone, unless it is necessary'. Is their aim legitimate? Probably, is this the least intrusive way of doing it, is it feck?! If you have a case, then get a warrant, if you don't, get a case.

And this 'I have nothing to hide' is a load of shite too! You may not have raped or murdered anyone, but everyone has things they want to hide, if for nothing else than everybody needs something that is theirs, and secret, even if in reality it is minor and inconsequential. Do you want everyone knowing what you last had a wank to? Look everyone, lets 'share' our toilet habits. I can't wait for the day you walk down the street and the billboards scan your credit card (or more likely smartphone as we wont need cards anymore) and alter their advert to address your buying history. There are plenty reasons to resist the constant assault on personal liberties of the snoopers with vested interests in keeping us all terrified without needing to resort to George Orwell.

We've seen in the last couple of years there are certain commercial relationships that exist between the police and outside business. If News of the World can buy other information, what makes us think this sort of thing won't be up for sale. Companies like Facebook track you all over the internet and then sell where you have been to advertising companies. At present there is only so much information they can get their hands on, and the vast majority of that, even if people don't want to, is freely offered for them to have a go at taking. If NOTW can buy information, what makes people think the content of our emails wouldn't be up for sale?

That assumes that continuing duplicitous nature of certain sections of the police, but even with a perfectly honest police force, the potential for trouble is high. Remember the early 2000's where every other week there was a news story about some civil servant leaving a laptop on a train containing all the nuclear codes, or the bank details of everyone in Kent.

The commercial ramifications from the potential for identity fraud are frickening! I wouldn't like to think how much it costs banks every year, given they tend to take the brunt for most if it. It happened to me and they were fantastic, sending me a cheque for the couple of hundred quid within two weeks. I'm less sure they would be as accommodating if it were costing them ten times as much.

People who want to keep the content of their personal conversations via email private do not need to justify why. It is the people who want to disregard that privacy who need to justify it. Hence the need to go before a judge and get a warrant.

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

totally in your corner W4E this is just another step towards communist britain and another step to world communisim.

Clot! That was Pru you were quoting

There are a lot more 'sinister' people in the world than the misguided commies Dan. Some parts of comunisum are really quite good

I think it is highly unlikely it IS, in fact, a step towards an authoritarian, dystopian future. I hope we have enough checks in place and are aware enough that it is unlikely we will end up living in a 1984/ Soviet Russia environment. You don't need to resort to that kind of argument for reasons why piecemeal erosion of civil liberties and privacy ought to be resisted, always justified generally in the name of 'prevention of crime'.

Fear in the populace is the tool of power! How easy we are led in all walks of life, currently it is the financiers predicting monetary Armageddon, (you know the people who have most to lose if people wake up to the fantasy figures world they live in) who try to strike such fear to ensure compliance.

Godwin's Law approaches.

I hate people who say they have nothing to hide.

Everyone has something to hide. You'd be boring if you didn't.

Hang on....

Oh and Hitler!, by the way.

wow this is getting exciting, turning into a bit of a political debate

that really made me lol bwfcdan94. A big thanks.

It really is fear. Look around at people you know and yourself, what do you see? Folk who in the main conform to 'What is expected'. Ok it seems not all fit the bill there are those in the UK who don't fit the 'norm' but if they get near the lords n masters they get hit with the 'ton of bricks', the rest are dealt with so as to maintain a vision to the mass populace of Justice, democracy and freedom at work.
Now the fact we are becoming more and more vocal, critical of anyone from top to bottom in society needs addressing, enter plan A. Frighten the people with tales of pending doom and disaster, offer the 'cure' more surveillance, more prying, we'll catch them, we'll get tough with sentencing, so if we just put this little bill through for your own protection of course you'll approve.
Bang! they got us they will be able to monitor the formation of any resistance and strangle it at birth.

chill.

they'll still need trials and warrants ,and the likes, becoz of that old favourite of yours "the human rights act".

Really? We'll see

I suppose the bottom line is that I care nothing about this and can't for the life of me see why anyone would get their knickers in a twist about it. It won't affect me and I'd be incredibly suprised if it affected anyone on here. If it does, then clearly you've been doing something you shouldn't have. Life goes on.

An intelligence chief speaking in John Le Carre's novel Our kind of Traitor. Made me laugh because you can almost hear Hoboh views:

"We're the only show in town. Government's a fxck up, half the Civil Service is out-to-lunch. The Foreign Office is as much use as a wet dream, the country's stony-broke and the bankers are taking our money and giving us the finger."

Thanks Tango