Oscar winner Sean Penn sorts out the Falklands

CrazyHorse · **Posted:** Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:39 pm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/feb/1 ... nd-islands

Quote:

The actor Sean Penn has weighed into the Falklands dispute, urging Britain to join UN-sponsored talks over what he called "the Malvinas Islands of Argentina".

Penn met Argentina's president, Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, in Buenos Aires and said: "It's necessary that these diplomatic talks happen between the United Kingdom and Argentina. I think that the world today is not going to tolerate any kind of ludicrous and archaic commitment to colonialist ideology."

Last week British officials dismissed claims it was "militarising" the situation in the South Atlantic by deploying nuclear weapons nearby. Argentina said it had intelligence that a Vanguard submarine had been sent to the area, and demanded to know whether it was carrying warheads.

"Thus far the UK refuses to say whether it is true or not," said the foreign minister, Hector Timerman. "Are there nuclear weapons or are there not? The information Argentina has is that there are these nuclear weapons."

Timerman said Britain was using an "unjustified defence of self-determination" to maintain a military base on the Falklands, which allowed it to dominate the Atlantic. But Britain's ambassador to the UN, Sir Mark Lyall Grant, said the idea that the UK was militarising the situation was "manifestly absurd".

David Cameron and Fernández have been trading barbs for months, prompting the UN secretary-general, Ban Ki-moon, to express "concern about the increasingly strong exchanges".

Britain deployed one of its most modern destroyers, HMS Dauntless, to the region but insisted the move was merely routine. Prince William's arrival in the Falklands for a posting as an RAF search and rescue pilot further infuriated Buenos Aires. And there were protests after the website of Falklands newspaper the Penguin News ran a photo of Fernández labelled "bitch".

CrazyHorse · **Posted:** Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:40 pm

Presumably we've got Sean to thank for Roberto Mancini and Carlos Tevez talking again too.

The Axman · **Posted:** Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:41 pm

Is Sean Penn the Tibetan buddhist, the Kabbalist, or the Scientologist? I get all these heroes mixed up.

boltonboris · **Posted:** Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:45 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C8FDDs-iQs

40 seconds(ish)

Il Pirate · **Posted:** Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:12 pm

We should have wiped the feckers off the face of the earth first time around. Not the kids they sent to 'invade' the islands. But the self important despots in Buenes Ares. It would have stopped all the sh*t kicking off again.

Bruce Rioja · **Posted:** Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:32 pm

It's quite simple, Mr Madonna. Who's flag do the islanders want to like under? Now keep your sticky beak out - you clueless, talentless tosser!

Montreal Wanderer · **Posted:** Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:06 pm

Il Pirate wrote:

We should have wiped the feckers off the face of the earth first time around. Not the kids they sent to 'invade' the islands. But the self important despots in Buenes Ares. It would have stopped all the sh*t kicking off again.

They all faced charges. The three man junta were convicted and all are dead. This 'sh*t' is started by their democratically elected government. Every Argentinian feels pretty strongly about the Falklands, though it has only mattered recently because of potential oil reserves. The fact is the two thousand inhabitants want to remain British and they have the right to self-determination. You don't see America invading Bermuda or Canada annexing St. Pierre et Miquelon (which are in our territorial waters) for making the same decision. Yet the UN has all three listed as targets for decolonialization. Wiping out the leaders (who got wiped out anyway) would have done no more good than it has in Afghanistan or Iraq.

boltonboris · **Posted:** Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:26 pm

F.A.G

Worthy4England · **Posted:** Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:43 pm

We could do a joint deal here. When the US give Hawaii back to the Hawaiians...Klutz.

Montreal Wanderer · **Posted:** Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:03 pm

boltonboris wrote:

F.A.G

Eh? I'm not (whatever it means).

TANGODANCER · **Posted:** Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:11 pm

Montreal Wanderer wrote:

They all faced charges. The three man junta were convicted and all are dead. This 'sh*t' is started by their democratically elected government. Every Argentinian feels pretty strongly about the Falklands, though it has only mattered recently because of potential oil reserves. The fact is the two thousand inhabitants want to remain British and they have the right to self-determination. You don't see America invading Bermuda or Canada annexing St. Pierre et Miquelon (which are in our territorial waters) for making the same decision. Yet the UN has all three listed as targets for decolonialization. Wiping out the leaders (who got wiped out anyway) would have done no more good than it has in Afghanistan or Iraq.

Spain tried something similar with Gibralta some years ago, and 99% of the people there wanted to stay British.

William the White · **Posted:** Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:49 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:

It's quite simple, Mr Madonna. Who's flag do the islanders want to like under? Now keep your sticky beak out - you clueless, talentless tosser!

There's no doubt about the answer to that.

But is that the beginning middle and end of the story?

No matter what the financial cost or cost in human beings (potentially)?

I think things are altered - at least marginally - by the return of Argentina to democracy. I'd say a negotiated settlement might well now be advantageous to everyone - even the kelpers, who surely can't be comfortable forever with the nearest neighbour freezing them out or lusting after them by turn. Joint sovereignty with significant autonomy for the Islanders themselves, together with jointly financed exploration of oil potential etc, and any benefits emerging from this jointly shared, might well be negotiable and beneficial for all.

Given the stubbornness of both governments and the islanders it's unlikely in the short term - but something like it will have to emerge in the future.

Zulus Thousand of em · **Posted:** Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:42 am

feck the Argentinians - and their version of democracy.

Gary the Enfield · **Posted:** Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:54 am

Zulus Thousand of em wrote:

feck the Argentinians - and their version of democracy.

.......is pretty much where I am. Sean Penn can feck off too. Does he think he has a voice because he married Madonna, who once played Eva Peron in a shit film, that he has a voice?Hollywood actors. :roll:

bobo the clown · **Posted:** Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:11 am

Personally, I'm grateful for the depth of analysis Mr Penn will have put into this and his clear and well argued conclusion.

If he could give us till the week after next to withdraw it would be appreciated.

Next ; World hunger.

William the White · **Posted:** Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:30 pm

Zulus Thousand of em wrote:

feck the Argentinians - and their version of democracy.

Man with bayonet speaks... :wink:

Zulus Thousand of em · **Posted:** Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:40 pm

William the White wrote:

Zulus Thousand of em wrote:

feck the Argentinians - and their version of democracy.

Man with bayonet speaks... :wink:

... to politicians and citizens of a faux democracy who would threaten the residents of the Falkland Islands and our troops with their bayonets - if they didn't think that they would get their arses shot off in the process.

That's how it is in the real world sadly. :wink:

Joint sovereignty? FFS!

William the White · **Posted:** Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:35 pm

Zulus Thousand of em wrote:

William the White wrote:

Zulus Thousand of em wrote:

feck the Argentinians - and their version of democracy.

Man with bayonet speaks... :wink:

... to politicians and citizens of a faux democracy who would threaten the residents of the Falkland Islands and our troops with their bayonets - if they didn't think that they would get their arses shot off in the process.

That's how it is in the real world sadly. :wink:

Joint sovereignty? FFS!

Inevitable in the medium term, in my view. And a British government, of any persuasion, would welcome it with great relief. The Argentinians would not, or at least, would pretend so, but might be persuadable if they saw advantages in it for them. The 2000 or so Falkland Islanders would hate it, but would accept it rather than Argentinian direct rule (you will note that in my first post I advocated autonomy for the islands - the most difficult part of future negotiations, which are almost certain to be necessary, would be how much autonomy, for how long etc.).

Just trying to get beyond 'feck the Argies'.

Self-determination is an anachronistic notion for a non-viable state...

Prufrock · **Posted:** Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:52 pm

They want to be British. End of. If it means kicking t'fook out of Argentina again, that would be sad, and to the greatest possible lengths ought to be avoided, but so be it, if necessary. I'd quite like me neighbours house. If I say I really really want it, and I'm now democratically ruled, can I have half? It is dead close.

Zulus Thousand of em · **Posted:** Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:00 pm

William the White wrote:

Zulus Thousand of em wrote:

William the White wrote:

Zulus Thousand of em wrote:

feck the Argentinians - and their version of democracy.

Man with bayonet speaks... :wink:

... to politicians and citizens of a faux democracy who would threaten the residents of the Falkland Islands and our troops with their bayonets - if they didn't think that they would get their arses shot off in the process.

That's how it is in the real world sadly. :wink:

Joint sovereignty? FFS!

Inevitable in the medium term, in my view. And a British government, of any persuasion, would welcome it with great relief. The Argentinians would not, or at least, would pretend so, but might be persuadable if they saw advantages in it for them. The 2000 or so Falkland Islanders would hate it, but would accept it rather than Argentinian direct rule (you will note that in my first post I advocated autonomy for the islands - the most difficult part of future negotiations, which are almost certain to be necessary, would be how much autonomy, for how long etc.).

Just trying to get beyond 'feck the Argies'.

Self-determination is an anachronistic notion for a non-viable state...

The advantage for them? One more step down the road to them gaining something that isn't theirs. I think they would take you up on your kind offer, Will. Fortunately you are as far removed from the formulation of our foreign policy as I am.

I have considered your articulate and well thought out (if slightly naive) argument and have come to a conclusion.

It's still "feck em!" :wink:

Oscar winner Sean Penn sorts out the Falklands

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