Stoketastrophe: which is worse?

Dave Sutton's barnet · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 12:31 pm

Elsewhere on TW, DJBlu said that being relegated at Stoke would make the FA Cup semi-final defeat "look like a drop in the ocean in comparison".

Do you agree?

Personally I don't – emotionally, at least. I'm not unaware that Premier League survival is important, but the place you get relegated at scarcely matters. True, it would be horrific to see the gloating oatcake-botherers gleeful at our demise, but when we look back at this campaign it won't feel like it has been lost on one game.

On the other hand, that FA Cup defeat... it still stings. Many argue, with some strength, that it ruined Coyle. It certainly ruined the romanticism, of Coyle and of the cup run. At this remove, it seems to have marked the part where we turned from dreamland to dreamers; a revolution crushed under the ruthless wheels of pragmatism.

You may disagree. Please do. That's the point.

The fearsome hollow boom of the older boys in the deep end
The green shoots of recovery shrivelled up in harsh tomorrows
Left to pick dry sticks and mumble to myself
A melancholy emblem of parish cruelty

Jez · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 12:40 pm

if they relegate qpr on sunday as far as i'm concerned all is forgiven

CAPSLOCK · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 12:42 pm

Fcuk the cup if we're staying up

BWFC_Insane · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 12:45 pm

So difficult to answer.

Clearly going down is far worse for the club than losing a semi final. Its possible that could destroy the club in the way of so many before us, for some signficant time.

As a fan though, should we go down on the last day it wouldn't be a complete shock and it would be off the back of a shit season where for most of it, we've looked nailed on to go down.

The semi final defeat was at the time against the backdrop of a decent season and although it was highly plausible to lose to Stoke, doubt any single Bolton fan expected anything other than a tight result either way. Certainly not having our pants pulled down and getting a spanking on such a public stage, by such a relatively unfashionable side at that stage.

So in isolation the shock and disappointment of losing at Wembley will probably be greater than losing in a weeks time, which would hardly be a surprise and neither would the ultimate relegation.

But from a club point of view, losing at Wembley was insignificant compared to the loss of premiership status.

So I need a "both are absolute shitters for different reasons" option....

Dave Sutton's barnet · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 1:02 pm

Perhaps I should have made clearer: I meant "which is worse" as a fan.

ohjimmyjimmy · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 1:05 pm

I think the cup semi.
That was a one-off game with no sense of what was to come.
At least if we go down at Stoke there'll be this feeling that it may be coming, given how bad we've been all season, and we'll have had time to accept the possibility.

BWFC_Insane · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 1:08 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:

Perhaps I should have made clearer: I meant "which is worse" as a fan.

Yeah I get that.

But as a fan you're worried about the future of the club if we go down.

But the shock value is less.....

CAPSLOCK · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 1:10 pm

ohjimmyjimmy wrote:

I think the cup semi.
That was a one-off game with no sense of what was to come.
At least if we go down at Stoke there'll be this feeling that it may be coming, given how bad we've been all season, and we'll have had time to accept the possibility.

So, gutted for a few days against watching shite for the next 20 years

Let me see....

boltonboris · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 1:10 pm

People forget about semi-finals. They don't forget about you being relegated.

boltonboris · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 1:11 pm

CAPSLOCK wrote:

Fcuk the cup, we're staying up

Edited:

Hopefully, we can sing that a week on Sunday.

Dave Sutton's barnet · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 1:13 pm

boltonboris wrote:

People forget about semi-finals. They don't forget about you being relegated.

"People"? I don't give a tin shit what, say, Newcastle fans remember about us. I'm asking Bolton fans, who I thought were relatively indifferent to the opinions (and memories) of others. Unless you're saying you've forgotten last year's semi-final, Boz?

boltonboris · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 1:16 pm

I've pretty much consigned it to the back of my mind. No longer arsed about what happened then. If we get relegated, I'll be crushed every time I go to the match.

The sense of failure in that one off match (where I was proud that we'd gotten so far) will be nowhere near the feeling of failure over the course of a whole league season.

And I get the drift of your reply. But you can't honestly say that the reputation of the team that you support doesn't matter?

It's part of the whole package of supporting the club. You want to feel pride in them. You want people to say "that Bolton are a good side"

Tombwfc · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 1:17 pm

They're both obviously really shit, but after the semi we dusted ourselves down and in the next game beat Arsenal. Lose against Stoke a week on Sunday and who is our next game going to be against? Burnley? Peterborough United? Stevenage?

At the end of the day, losing the semi-final didn't come with 9 months (at least) of watching shit teams play shit football in front of a less than half-full Reebok. Relegation is worse.

BWFC_Insane · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 1:18 pm

boltonboris wrote:

People forget about semi-finals. They don't forget about you being relegated.

Hmmm, I'm not entirely sure. I reckon fans who went may remember being beaten 5-0 at Wembley more than going down against a backdrop of a season where its been expected by many for a long time......

Dave Sutton's barnet · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 1:23 pm

boltonboris wrote:

But you can't honestly say that the reputation of the team that you support doesn't matter? It's part of the whole package of supporting the club. You want to feel pride in them. You want people to say "that Bolton are a good side"

You're opening a whole different can there. Elsewhere, BWFCi is lauding West Ham's "organised" second-tier effort... and there are plenty applauding Southampton and Reading. Are we really better thought of than that?

Anyway, meh. Not bothered. I was (originally) asking which would stick more in the craw. I've seen us get relegated thrice before, and seen us lose a few cup semis for that matter, but nothing sticks like that Wembley day last April.

boltonboris · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 1:28 pm

I'm (still) more upset about losing to Villa on penalties than getting battered by Stoke..

For me, the prospect of relegation is far more gut wrenching, than the prospect of watching us get tobnked 5-0 again at Wembley.

In fact, simply put. If some hypothetical higher power said "I can guarantee you saftey, as long as you get beat in the semi-final by a cricket score next season" I'd take it.. Again and again.

ohjimmyjimmy · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 1:28 pm

CAPSLOCK wrote:

ohjimmyjimmy wrote:

I think the cup semi.
That was a one-off game with no sense of what was to come.
At least if we go down at Stoke there'll be this feeling that it may be coming, given how bad we've been all season, and we'll have had time to accept the possibility.

So, gutted for a few days against watching shite for the next 20 years

Let me see....

Well tell you what, you have your opinion and i have mine, such as the question suggests...?

Armchair Wanderer · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 1:30 pm

The semi was horrible.

The relegation thing for me isn't too bad. It'll mean we win more games next season. I don't mind losing, if I did I'd support someone else. What I don't like is being a second class team when playing mediocre opposition at home. Paid good money and braved the cold and public transport across the country to see some really poor performances this year. So, a season of rubbish (with a couple of highlights) = really horrible.

If we go down at the end of the year it'll be because we deserve to, which is fair enough.

BWFC_Insane · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 1:31 pm

The very worst feeling of all though, IMO is losing in a play off final.

boltonboris · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 1:34 pm

Especially when done so poorly (Watford).

In fact, that performance was as toothless as Stoke!

Stoketastrophe: which is worse?

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