Jaffka's gossip thread on the ins and outs at the 'Bok

Lord Kangana · **Posted:** Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:50 pm

If we signed another Holden instead, then yes. For his contributions, past and potential, £5m is an offer that a club in our position is unlikely to fight off too strenuously.

And, of course, if the player wants to leave, any other discussion is simply academic.

Tombwfc · **Posted:** Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:57 pm

We didn't need £5mil to sign Holden, Klasnic, Reo-Coker or Petrov. Whereas when Coyle has been given money, he's bought Alonso, Wheater, Eagles, Mears, N'gog, Ream and Sordell.

I've no idea if Mark Davies wants to leave or not, and he's not perfect by any stretch, but I'd happily take my chances with him over whoever Coyle would bring in with that money.

Lord Kangana · **Posted:** Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:03 pm

Say like an Andrews for free and the club banks £5m?

Sorry, not convinced by what you're saying. Davies hasn't proven any consistency to command a first 11 place. Indeed, you've listed players above precisely in his bracket. If its £5m and a Barclays Premier League club, then the club and the player will probably jump at the deal.

Tombwfc · **Posted:** Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:20 pm

Yes, players like Andrews is what I'm concerned about. Adequate for the Championship, woefully out of his depth in the Premier League. He couldn't do it the first time round when he was supposedly in his prime, he's not going to fare any better when he's 33-years-old.

I don't mind us signing players like that for next season (and for low cost), but if the aim is to go up and stay up, why fill a team with them? We've got more than enough as it is.

Davies faded badly towards the end of last season (understandable considering he's never played that amount of games at that level before), but for large parts of the season he looked very good. Even at his worst, he's a class above Keith Andrews.

Since we got relegated (and even before), all the talk from Coyle and Gartside has been of a long-term masterplan to see us back in the Premier League bigger and stronger. What part of selling Mark Davies and bringing in Keith Andrews ties into that?

Lord Kangana · **Posted:** Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:25 pm

If we don't spend the incoming money on the means to get promoted, then it is available later at a time when our income would support the wage of a an incoming £5m player... if we were to be promoted.

I would say the plan is to not return to mistakes of the past ie overspending. We were caught in a massive catch-22 before, I believe they are dealing with that.

Prufrock · **Posted:** Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:40 pm

Tombwfc wrote:

We didn't need £5mil to sign Holden, Klasnic, Reo-Coker or Petrov. Whereas when Coyle has been given money, he's bought Alonso, Wheater, Eagles, Mears, N'gog, Ream and Sordell.

I've no idea if Mark Davies wants to leave or not, and he's not perfect by any stretch, but I'd happily take my chances with him over whoever Coyle would bring in with that money.

I'm perhaps with you on that, but you have to put yourself in one of two positions. Either you are the board, and you trust Coyle- in which case you might say (what I'm arguing I probably would say) Mark Davies isn't worth £5m, take that, and trust the manager to go out and find maybe two players of the required standard not only to get us up but keep us up. Or, you don't trust Coyle, in which case you take the £5m use it to sack him and get in a manager who can take the same squad minus one player and get it up and keep it up.

I just think when you see Gary Cahill out for £7m, and you see LCY in for £2.2, and Holden for nought, you'd be looking at it in terms of our 'model' of buy young sell for more and think £5m on a £1m outlay fits the model and sounds a good deal.

Dave Sutton's barnet · **Posted:** Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:51 pm

I suspect people are being backed into arguing positions they wouldn't necessarily propose.

Keith Andrews isn't a replacement for Mark Davies (who isn't leaving anyway and is under heavy contract). If anything, Andrews is a replacement for Reo-Coker. Andrews is obviously not a long-term cornerstone, but can do a job needed currently.

Not every player Coyle signs has to last forever. Ask Danny Sturridge. If Andrews' wage is low enough to be worth our while for a good-for-the-second-tier midfielder, then fine. But he's a replacement for the attacking midfielder Coyle has tipped for England and given one of the club's longest-ever contracts.

Lord Kangana · **Posted:** Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:52 pm

I haven't argued he's his replacement. I've actually said pretty much the same as you.

SmokinFrazier · **Posted:** Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:22 pm

Tombwfc wrote:

Adequate for the Championship, woefully out of his depth in the Premier League.

He was good last year with WBA. He didn't even look out of his depth in the Euros and is one of the few Ireland players who can hold their heads up.

wanderers_on_tour · **Posted:** Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:46 pm

If you see Andrews as a replacement for Sean Davis everything is rosey

Jokers in White · **Posted:** Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:03 pm

SmokinFrazier wrote:

Tombwfc wrote:

Adequate for the Championship, woefully out of his depth in the Premier League.

He was good last year with WBA. He didn't even look out of his depth in the Euros and is one of the few Ireland players who can hold their heads up.

I agree with everything you have said there, he was Ireland's best player by a mile at the euro's. He was outstanding up until his red card for fcuk all against Italy, very determined individual who get's stuck in which we need in this league, he was the only one making Buffon work during the game having shot after shot. I think he would be a decent buy for a couple of years.

bobo the clown · **Posted:** Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:18 pm

thebish wrote:

wanderers_on_tour wrote:

People are taking this seriously... :conf:

It's Twitter...

Bobo takes his twitter VERY seriously and wants to be kept informed!!

well, I do if we're getting rid of all our califlowers ... & at cabbage prices too !

More brocolli !!

Gail Platz · **Posted:** Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:46 pm

I'm warming to the idea of big Keith.

He's the type of player we need really, our midfield is too soft.

Get another hard bastard centre half now and we're laughing.

officer_dibble · **Posted:** Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:54 pm

Eggzackerley

and someone who can coach defending set pieces

Wandering Willy · **Posted:** Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:55 pm

He points a lot, but he's not fat.

TKIZ! · **Posted:** Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:04 pm

He's the new Nobby. Get in

Tombwfc · **Posted:** Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:29 pm

SmokinFrazier wrote:

Tombwfc wrote:

Adequate for the Championship, woefully out of his depth in the Premier League.

He was good last year with WBA. He didn't even look out of his depth in the Euros and is one of the few Ireland players who can hold their heads up.

I think I only saw him play once for West Brom (and even that is presuming he played at the Reebok, I can't remember) and haven't seen any of Ireland's games at the Euros. West Brom opted not to keep him on though, so he can't have been that good for them. At Rovers though he was the worst central midfielder in a squad filled with terrible central midfielders.

Incidentally, I think he scored at Barnsley the only other time I saw him play last season. I think he's perfectly fine for what we've brought him in to do, but nothing more than that. I think the clubs interested in signing him are a good indication of his level.

Prufrock wrote:

I'm perhaps with you on that, but you have to put yourself in one of two positions. Either you are the board, and you trust Coyle- in which case you might say (what I'm arguing I probably would say) Mark Davies isn't worth £5m, take that, and trust the manager to go out and find maybe two players of the required standard not only to get us up but keep us up. Or, you don't trust Coyle, in which case you take the £5m use it to sack him and get in a manager who can take the same squad minus one player and get it up and keep it up.

I just think when you see Gary Cahill out for £7m, and you see LCY in for £2.2, and Holden for nought, you'd be looking at it in terms of our 'model' of buy young sell for more and think £5m on a £1m outlay fits the model and sounds a good deal.

The 'model' though is not worth having when you don't bring in the right players. Assuming we're looking to at least double our money on these players (as we surely will with Davies and Lee, and would've done with Cahill had we sold him earlier), how many of the players I mentioned have a hope of doing that? It's too early to say with Sordell, but with the rest we just paid average money and received average footballers.

TKIZ! · **Posted:** Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:35 pm

Tombwfc wrote:

SmokinFrazier wrote:

Tombwfc wrote:

Adequate for the Championship, woefully out of his depth in the Premier League.

He was good last year with WBA. He didn't even look out of his depth in the Euros and is one of the few Ireland players who can hold their heads up.

I think I only saw him play once for West Brom (and even that is presuming he played at the Reebok, I can't remember) and haven't seen any of Ireland's games at the Euros. West Brom opted not to keep him on though, so he can't have been that good for them. At Rovers though he was the worst central midfielder in a squad filled with terrible central midfielders.

Incidentally, I think he scored at Barnsley the only other time I saw him play last season. I think he's perfectly fine for what we've brought him in to do, but nothing more than that. I think the clubs interested in signing him are a good indication of his level.

Prufrock wrote:

I'm perhaps with you on that, but you have to put yourself in one of two positions. Either you are the board, and you trust Coyle- in which case you might say (what I'm arguing I probably would say) Mark Davies isn't worth £5m, take that, and trust the manager to go out and find maybe two players of the required standard not only to get us up but keep us up. Or, you don't trust Coyle, in which case you take the £5m use it to sack him and get in a manager who can take the same squad minus one player and get it up and keep it up.

I just think when you see Gary Cahill out for £7m, and you see LCY in for £2.2, and Holden for nought, you'd be looking at it in terms of our 'model' of buy young sell for more and think £5m on a £1m outlay fits the model and sounds a good deal.

The 'model' though is not worth having when you don't bring in the right players. Assuming we're looking to at least double our money on these players (as we surely will with Davies and Lee, and would've done with Cahill had we sold him earlier), how many of the players I mentioned have a hope of doing that? It's too early to say with Sordell, but with the rest we just paid average money and received average footballers.

Really? One of Blackburn's worst? Considering the current England manager played him 14 times in a six month spell I'd hardly call him rubbish

Tombwfc · **Posted:** Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:45 pm

The current England manager signed and played Paul Konchesky for Liverpool, and he's shit. In fact I'm sure Roy's played many players who aren't any good, I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

And yes, saying he was the worst central midfielder at Blackburn might be slightly harsh, they have some very poor central midfielders, but he really isn't very good.

TKIZ! · **Posted:** Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:49 pm

Tombwfc wrote:

The current England manager signed and played Paul Konchesky for Liverpool, and he's shit. In fact I'm sure Roy's played many players who aren't any good, I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

And yes, saying he was the worst central midfielder at Blackburn might be slightly harsh, they have some very poor central midfielders, but he really isn't very good.

My point was that the Hodgson saw something in him enough to play him 14 times as did Trappatoni who's not exactly a slouch in the management stakes.

Plus you've seen all of once so again hardly a yardstick for saying that players are sh*t?

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